two drinks in: pt. 2
remember back in December when Kelsey Nolan, Amelia Rebecca and Taylor Yates got drunk and talked about sexuality? they don't, but the tape recorder never lies (and neither does the internet). after two long months, w pick up where we left off - in the middle of Amelia's newly-chartered sexual adventures. (lost? forgot? catch up on part one over here.)
AR: but yeah, I didn’t really prefer his technique or style and after it was done - I don’t know if it was because I knew I wasn’t going to see him again or if it was because he couldn’t come - but I was done, I didn’t have an orgasm, I was just spent. so I helped him, but I just did not have an emotional attachment to this guy the way I did with the first one.
KN: did you have an orgasm with the first guy?
AR: no. it felt good, but mostly I was experiencing a lot of pain the entire time.
KN: it’s interesting... I am having a lot of the same exploration for a very different reason. I found out that I don’t particularly like choking. I’m into a lot of stuff, but choking - not my jam. a lot of the guys that I’m with, when they find out, they say “oh, well you just haven’t tried it with me,” and I’m like no no, no. I just empirically don’t like this thing, and they think that they can get away with it. or the finger in the ass thing. sometimes! but maybe give me a little heads up. when you just sneak it in there, I’m bound to freak out. or, worse, when they just try to stick their dick in your ass like you’re not going to notice.
AR: that happened to me.
KN: what the fuck? of COURSE.
TY: what’s hilarious though is that, what I love about this nugget, is that you and I are coming from a place where we have years of physical sexual experience and over the course of those years have experienced well okay, dick in the butt, but Amelia has also experienced a number of these things but in such a short period of time.
KN: mine’s only been like, eight months or so?
TY: okay. well you guys are within a similar time frame then.
KN: my college years were just drunken, sloppy whatevers.
TY: some of those years don’t count. some of those people don’t count.
KN: like I think I had buttsex because I was hammered.
TY: “I think I had buttsex.”
KN: it was just the wrong hole one time. and then I had five years of decent yet vanilla sex, where we did three things and each had an orgasm and that was the end of it.
TY: I appreciate that regardless of when you start, or the number of partners you’ve had, the experience is generally similar.
KN: what I was thinking about was how you [Amelia] had, I’m sure, spent a long time thinking about how you expected this to be. and whether this happened as it did, you knew it was a big deal and you spent a long time focusing on the moment, absorbing it. for you, this was very special, or not, or whatever. for a lot of us, I had just turned 16 when it happened, and it was like oh, I don't even really know what a dick looks like, and it was my first boyfriend, and as it turns out his dick was really small but I didn’t know it at the time, and I didn’t even know what an orgasm was gonna be like, I didn’t have that until college -
TY: should I open this? [holding a bottle of wine]
KN: yes.
AR: definitely.
KN: it was not a profound thing. for you it was, I think because you were an adult. I was not one of those, so I have no idea if -
AR: what was interesting for me was, in the aftermath, I had already said if I don't hear from this guy, I already know why, but after a certain point, the way that it ended, we went on our second date, then I went out of town, and he texted me the entire time I was gone until a few days I got back, and then he just kind of fell off the face of the earth. "yeah, i just feel like I need my alone time, now that I have this alone time, even though I'm craving company, I feel like I should have it." and I didn’t really get that at first, like oh this guy needs alone time just like I need alone time, which for me was like three days of not talking to anyone and then I’m back out in the world. I didn’t really realize he was saying -
KN: “I need alone time from you.”
AR: yeah.
KN: what’s interesting is that, that you are accessible to him when you’re not here means “well somebody wants me in the world, but I don’t have to necessarily be available to them because we’re speaking digitally, there’s not a real connection. I have a lot of those, I have one guy who I’ve literally never met and I’ve been talking to him for six months, he doesn’t even live here anymore. it’s this insane thing - [to Taylor] do you remember this guy?
TY: this isn’t San Francisco dude, is it? are you still talking to him?
KN: nn--yeah.
TY: I’m gonna punch you in the face.
KN: you are, you are, you are!!!
TY: he goes to - alright, he - okay, so -
KN: we can talk about this later.
TY: we can talk about this now!
KN: he’s not Two Drinks worthy!
TY: ...everything is Two Drinks worthy.
KN: no.
TY: except for Beyoncé-trashing.
KN: he is not worth it. but that’s a thing, especially in the modern era that we live in, it’s this virtual accessibility that you have with somebody else without necessarily being vulnerable or available or anything. and that’s kind of wild.
AR: oh, I fucking hate it.
KN: people do it to me and I do it to other people. you look through your phone for somebody to talk to when you need to talk to somebody, and that’s crazy! it’s awful!
AR: once it finally hit me that I may not ever see this person again, or maybe he’ll resurface later, but for now I have to deal with my actual feelings about it - I was so inspired at the time once it happened, cause I’m an artist as well, so I was painting my feelings, even though I was super happy about that, I wasn’t facing them. I realized, it took about two months, but I didn’t even realize going into this experience - there was still a part of me that was very much a little girl. and I thought I could bypass that whole teenager brain by thinking, “well he’s just getting out of a marriage, it’s not personal if you don’t hear from him,” but it was also very interesting to experience these two very different perspectives. I couldn’t help but think, “he’s probably fucking other people, which is fine, because of course he is, it’s totally fine,” but it was a valuable experience to me because he’s the first person I’ve done that with, and he didn’t know that, so was it a mistake?”
KN: you never told him.
AR: no, I never told him.
KN: I think that’s better.
AR: yeah I mean, whatever.
KN: I think regardless, he would have gotten weird and you didn’t necessarily need to have that on top of the raw experience.
AR: I feel like because I didn’t tell him the night that it happened, if I had told him that afterward it would have been super manipulative, because I was still having feelings for him, but what was interesting to me was that there was no way I could bypass that teenager brain. is he not talking to me because something's wrong with my body?
KN: but that never goes away. that NEVER goes away.
AR: which is what I’ve learned through talking with other people.
KN: so you basically went from - from 16-year-old Kelsey to now, you went through all that in like two months.
AR: two months.
KN: that’s insane. well I’m very glad that you’ve already got the life lessons you learned from that. fuuuuck. that shit still happens. it never doesn’t occur.
AR: but it was so interesting to have those thoughts with the adult me going “you don’t even really like this guy. Henry Miller is his favorite author.”
KN: the rational part of you is like shhhh.
AR: at the same time, I felt like I had to learn how to be compassionate with myself because I thought, okay, I get where these guys are coming from but it’s also triggering a lot of things for you that have nothing to do with this particular situation. this guy, you already know he’s not right for you -
KN: but that never matters.
AR: yeah I know, but it was interesting to be aware of both perspectives at the same time.
KN: that’s wild. it’s wild that - I’m more impressed with the fact that you’ve learned these lessons as quickly as you did, because again, what am I, 12 years into my...sexual proclivities? and I’m still...I’m still like oh my GOD, did I shave enough? do I smell bad? what is it even? and I feel like I’ve had so many experiences at this point where I can see it happening with a guy, like oh, something happened either with me physically or with my personality and you're done. I can tell. and I don’t know what it is, but I know. a girl always knows. and I go home and I’m like, well that's over, obviously. and then I spend the next three days like well what exactly was it? was it this thing, or when I said this? aaaaaand...that fucking sucks. and I have no idea if guys experience this...I have no clue. I imagine to a degree, because men are not immune to body shame and lack of self-worth, questioning whatever...but…
TY: well there’s a few things there, right? the notion that you grow up being told that men are emotionally behind women, right -
KN: or they just don’t care.
TY: well but even biologically speaking, there’s the excuse that “men are emotionally younger than women” -
KN: “MEN STUPID”
TY: “DUMB MAN”
[eruption of laughter]
thank you endlessly permanent documentation internet
TY: and then there’s the other joke about “what happens after you break up,” so the way that men process breakups vs. the way - and we’ve all seen this meme, before they were even called memes there was this one where the woman feels the weight of this thing right away, oh my god I'm so sad, but then over time she’s like I feel good, this is cool! and then the joke is that the men do the opposite. at first he’s like yeah I'm fine, and then time sets in and he’s like omg NOW I’m feeling it, is something wrong with me? how did I fuck this up? and it’s like...there are instances where I recall that and I look at the way that I’m processing something versus how whoever I’m involved with is processing things, and I realize okay I'm definitely feeling this first, for whatever that’s worth. and then as I start reaching a place where I feel like I’ve adjusted and acknowledged all of my feelings, I see the trajectory and the light at the end of the tunnel. I’ll see this person and he’s like “okay it’s real it’s hitting me, I didn’t feel this thing and now I feel this thing.”
AR: but I also feel like it’s an energy thing too, because we’re so focused on it for that period of time, right in that moment, that once we’ve processed it and we can close that door, they can feel it.
KN: the emotional weight of anything is interesting because men stereotypically think I can fuck anything, it's great. I know that’s obviously not true a lot of the time, but it’s also “easier,” I’m gonna say in quotes -
TY: heavy quotations.
KN: heavy quotations. can you bold those? for men to walk away from a situation, a sexual situation -
TY: at the time.
KN: right right right. but also I will say a sexual situation. something you’re emotionally involved in, that’s a separate thing. but a sexual encounter - I wonder if that’s because again, biologically, they’re equipped to do this thing, “PLANT SEED EVERYWHERE” -
TY: “FUCK WOMAN, PLANT SEED”
KN: or if it’s like, societally men aren’t supposed to care. and also, the modernity of where we live, there are SO many humans available on these dating apps. literally you finish with one and you can move onto the next one. and it takes less than a second.
TY: it’s become a game. you are encouraged to play.
KN: YES. there’s no investment and I wonder a lot about how that affects women, particularly women who aren’t necessarily in the same realm as I am in of like I can do this thing! it’s not….Iiiiii am having a very good time, and I have no qualms with the way that I’ve laid myself out, but I also could see how in a certain amount of time I could get bored or I could get sad about this thing. and so I wonder about how it affects women who aren’t in my same mindset, who get attached. I wonder that a lot.
AR: that’s something I definitely struggled with. I felt like, why would anybody on this app actually invest in me when they can just get what they want or realize if they don't get what they want they can swipe to the next person? but also for me, I came to the conclusion after my two sexual experiences, my actual penetration experiences -
KN: can you call it that forever? “penetration experience.”
TY: [in movie trailer voice] "penetration experience."
KN: on a screen - “WORLDWIDE.”
AR: I am very grateful for the experiences I’ve had, but they -
KN: I’m glad that you are, and not feeling regretful about anything.
AR: oh yeah definitely, I feel very grateful for my experiences, but I also feel like - I’m glad I got the education aspect of it and now there’s nothing hanging over my head when I find the person I want to be in a relationship with. but at the same time I realized one of the things I left off the list of how I wanted to feel with the people that I’m having sex with is to feel valuable.
KN: sure!
AR: I mean, I valued myself, but I didn’t put myself in a place where I would be valuable to them. so now I know that I don’t really want to have sex with anybody until I’m in a relationship.
KN: so those were the two then.
AR: yeah.
KN: yeah! I think that that’s very intuitive. you’re very insightful into your own self. and that’s hugely important.
AR: it was just a very heightened emotional time during those two months. because also at the height of my teenager brain, I remembered that the second time I had sex with that [first] guy, he didn’t put a condom on, so I had to go get tested -
KN: oh shit!
AR: it was a great learning experience but it was also fucking intense. so I had to go to Planned Parenthood, for the first time, by myself, and have the lady ask “why didn’t you use a condom?” “cause he just stuck it in” -
KN: “don’t judge me, bitch!”
AR: well I wasn’t really given an option, he just put it in, and she was like “well that’s rape.” and - that’s not how it felt in the moment, but now because I’m already in a crazy mindset, now I’m questioning that.
KN: also, how presumptuous is it for them to do that? that’s happened to me and one, you think that I’m STD-free which, good on you but I could not be; two, you think that you doing this is gonna make me not pregnant? who do you think you are that you can do this?
AR: I’m not taking birth control pills. I was like please don't let me have anything because I do not want to text that guy again.
TY: isn’t that another biological setback - that women as receivers it’s “easier” for us to “get things?”
AR: well yeah, because we can’t just wash it off!
TY: we can’t just wash our dicks off and be done with it.
KN: do you think that dudes think that when they wash their dicks off they’re washing STDs off?
TY: okay, I don’t think that’s necessarily true -
AR: probably some of them!
TY: the statistics are that men get away cleaner than women tend to. women are more likely to end up like OH LOOK.
KN: as “receivers!” that term carries so much weight I think.
TY: I wanna - I didn’t think I - okay well I kinda thought I would bring this up. you brought up this - I’m going here.
KN: I’m so nervous with where you’re going…
TY: no it’s - it - this is what - we were joking about this earlier. we were talking about how “biologically” it’s “easier” for men to walk away from these sexual encounters and for us it’s more complicated. but, um…[a lot of uncomfortable giggling occurs here]
KN: can you stop? what is happening? why are you so weird??
TY: [more giggling] the other side of it - maybe this won’t even be in there - I’m in this place. I’m talking about The Place. the place being…[so much stupid stammering]
KN: I’m so nervous about “this place.”
TY: I’m in this place where I’m with this one person. I’m 28 years old, I’ve been in a relationship for, it’s almost been two years, and we’re finally in the same place [after a long distance relationship] and it’s wild. and I am in this place that I’ve never been. I’ve been here in vain. this biological feeling of we’ve been together, I can see where we can continue to be together. ME WOMAN YOU MAN WE MAKE FAMILY.I’ve been in that place before for the wrong reasons. I wanna prove that I can have this! I don't know what I actually want -
KN: that was me with my ex. I wanted to prove that I could do it.
TY: the deflection of personal ambition into I CAN DO THIS, WE’VE ALREADY BEEN DOING IT, YOUR FAMILY LOVES ME, I’VE GOT A PERMANENT PLACE AT THE TABLE. WE’RE GOOD. so I’d wanted it for the wrong reasons. but a couple years later and I find myself in this genuine place of, you're a good person and I'm in love with you! we can take care of each other! we're so good! so there’s this weird understanding that this is coming from a genuine place. and as a female human I feel like we could "do this.". and that’s an overwhelming feeling, and it has been followed by the other part of my biological self saying, ...this is the person? this is The Person? are you sure you don't wanna -
AR: yep!
TY: that guy's tall, that guy has a beard, he has nice eyes - you sure you don't want your baby to have those eyes?
KN: look at those potential abs right there?
TY: listen to his voice. that's a nice voice.
KN: those are nice shoes.
TY: ANYTHING. seriously, it’s like ANYTHING.
KN: that’s where I’m at in my whole life and I’m glad to know I’m not the only one.
TY: it’s WILD. it’s this fucking weird thing - and I’m starting to wonder if that’s the biological drive - I get where I’m experiencing these very stark sensations simultaneously -
KN: absolutely! and I think it’s 100% a thing -
TY: if we’re saying it’s “easier” in heavy quotes for men to walk away, as a woman, now that I’ve stumbled upon this viable man to perhaps be the father of [points to uterus] this situation, to just - if I’m here on this planet to have these kids -
KN: yuchh.
TY: then my uterus is like, “is this your best option? you’re gonna carry on your lineage, are you sure you don’t wanna check out these other penises floating around??” it’s WILD!
KN: you know how far I am from a committed relationship - “who could I even call tonight?”, that’s where I’m at - and I go on a date with somebody, or three dates, and I look at them and I’m like, are you it? this guy I’m going to have sex with next weekend, can I still do that even though I’m sitting here with you? are you my END? I even have those thoughts without any merit. and I’m like oh god no, I'm not even close to being okay with you.
TY: so like - I just - I - this is how flabbergasted I am -
KN: and also drunk.
TY: wellllll sure. but the joke is like, “so how are things going?” and I’m like “things are going SO well that I wanna sleep with other people.”
KN: that’s the Carrie Bradshaw conundrum, right?
TY: “everything is so great that I wanna fuck everyone else.”
KN: “things are so great that I’m waking up with anxiety over it.”
TY: “this is the person that I want to spend my life with so much that my uterus is-” ...it’s like a prank, like your body is trying to set you up to see if you’re going to fall for somebody else.
KN: but you’re certainly not the only person. it’s wild that that exists at all. to be so sure about somebody and then have your body like, NOPE KIDDING.
TY: it feels like the Final Test. and at first I was like oh god.
KN: and if you don’t fuck everybody else, you win!
TY: the imagination involved in the whole ordeal versus being in actual proximity to these people - I’m like there's no actual interest in fucking you, it's all imaginary. but there’s any number of questions! I’m sure for him biologically he’s like really, this bitch? she's SO loud -
KN: will you stop with that? you gotta stop with that.
TY: no but that’s not what I mean!
KN: I know it’s not but I’m not gonna let you do it.
TY: any singular person has any number of traps, right? HUMANS. that says enough.
AR: I love how drunk we all are right now.
TY: end of the story being, it’s strange to recognize the biology of it versus mentality. but this strange confirmation of, that’s how much I care about this person, that my body is saying -
KN: “no no, are you sure??”
TY: “listen, we’ve intercepted the signals you’ve been sending to your ovaries and we just want to make sure you’re -
KN: it’s funny, because when I was with my ex of five years, I never had that experience.
TY: no! it was all mental!
KN: it was, this is it, because we’re living together, and we have a little home, and he’s rich, and he is nice, and his family loves me and things are fine.
TY: I recognized that at a certain point, I wanted it because it was there and I could have had it if I’d wanted it but in the end it wasn’t truly what I was interested in.
KN: but that’s the thing, I didn’t realize I wasn’t interested in it. mostly the sex thing was the driving thing and everything else followed. and it’s interesting, I do often wonder, if that hadn’t been a thing - obviously there was going to be some breaking point, and I wonder what it would have been if it wasn’t the sex.
TY: that’s the stuff of failed marriages, that’s the stuff that years later you’re like “it’s always been like this.”
KN: exactly! he and I had so many conversations of like, “we could just get married.” people do this all the time. it’s people who are not necessarily unhappy, but they’re not happy either. they’re just living a mediocre life and that sounds super uninteresting to me.
AR: me too. and I feel like the person that I end up with is gonna be so lucky because I’ve gone so long without fucking that I’m gonna wanna fuck them all the time.
KN: I’m gonna wanna fuck them all the time and I’m the opposite, I’ve spent so long fucking and I’ve been looking for an amazing fuck for like, EVER, an amazing fuck who’s down to do some weird shit -
AR: I wanna have an orgasm.
KN: have you never -
AR: no no, I just mean not self-induced.
KN: mine is always hands, I think I’ve probably had an orgasm like one time from sex. hands, mouth, whatever.
AR: I think I need both hands and mouth at the same time.
TY: that’s definitely...great.
KN: I had the most boring sex of my life last weekend? two weekends ago? oh my god this guy I’d been talking to on Hinge and we never connected, we kept trying to meet up and it never happened -
TY: what is Hinge? it’s the one with the friends?
KN: friends of friends. I was at a party one night and I had to go to work in the morning and I got a text on the way home from this guy that was like “hey, I just got home, do you wanna come over for a glass of wine?” and I was drunk and I was like “...alright!” it was midnight when I got there and I hadn’t met him and I wasn’t sure yet if I wanted to bang him. I had to have an interaction with him to see? so we had a glass of wine on the couch, I was already drunk so I didn’t need more wine, and we’re sitting on the couch and we’re talking and I’m like you're cute, you have really nice teeth, you latch onto like one factor -
TY: you find your characteristic and you run with it.
KN: I don’t think he was drunk and I was kinda weird, “now what!” so we started making out and he was a good kisser...we go into the bedroom and it’s literally, “okay, that’s it!,” literally one second of foreplay before he put it in and I was like ohhhhh. that’s how this is gonna go. and I just waited for him to finish and it was the most boring sex and then I left. I didn’t even look around when we got into his bedroom - turns out he didn’t have any sheets on his bed. and we were done and he said “oh I’m about to put some sheets on!” and I said “ohh that’s okay, I’m gonna leave. is that okay?” and I got home and my roommates were up and they asked me where I was coming from and I just said, “wow. I just had the most boring sex of my life.”
TY: what makes me sad about this is -
KN: I waited for him to finish?
TY: well that, but more than that is that there’s this catch-22 where...men are engaging in sexual activities that they think are sufficient that aren’t, but that’s happening because -
KN: women aren’t saying anything.
AR: I haven’t had that experience, I’ve been getting foreplay for days.
TY: but you’re lucky, alright? because for some of us, it’s taken fucking years, alright?
AR: I know, I’m very aware.
TY: if you date a big dick and he won’t go down on you? that’s not fun.
KN: when he’s big and he knows it.
TY: this is the sadness, the sadness happens here: that’s a perfectly good dick. under the right circumstances, a dick-loving vagina would be happy to receive this penis. but no vagina has taught this penis...there are rules when you’ve got a big dick. you don’t get to just throw that around.
AR: like shove it in your ass?
TY: right, like shove it in your ass.
AR: that happened to me.
TY: coming back to this catch-22 - dudes do what they’ve been taught to do. the older ones anyway - the younger ones just don’t know.
KN: they’ve been taught that penetration is the key.
TY: the catch-22 is that there hasn’t been this woman who’s been comfortable enough with what she wants to be like “YO, cut this shit out, you’re not putting that inside of me until you do something else,” especially with a big dick because it’s like , this is gonna hurt and this fucking sucks. I spent a long time wishing I could appreciate it and instead it was no fun.
KN: it's gonna go in me and it's gonna fucking suck.
TY: "I am gonna take no enjoyment from this."
[eruption of laughter]
AR: I can’t wait to read this all transcribed.
KN: I’m nervous. my mom is gonna read this.
TY: the catch-22 being - it’s not big-dick specific.
KN: no no, it’s guys who are taught certain things. because - dick size doesn’t actually matter.
TY: it actually doesn’t. if you’re doing it right, you’re doing it right, and if you’re doing it wrong you’re doing it wrong.
KN: if you know how to use your hands, and your tongue, and your dick - preferably all together - you’re cool.
TY: what’s upsetting is hearing shit like this where it’s like “HE DIDDLED MY TWAT FOR THREE SECONDS.”
[some kind of grotesque hand motion is being performed amidst laughter]
KN: what you just did is longer than what he did.
AR: noooooooo! terrible.
TY: he attempted something for three seconds, thought that that was a thing, which clearly it was not, then proceeded to fuck you and thought “cool, this is great!” and...it is not your responsibility to teach this person.
KN: no, no it is not. if it was earlier in the night and I was less drunk I *might* have considered it, and I actually thought about it later. I was like “you know, I could teach him.” but I’m like oh, GOD.
TY: but is that your job?
KN: no it wasn’t my job, but I figured I might be able to get some decent sex out of it. but I did entertain that thought for 20 seconds. and you know what, he was very obviously sad that I was leaving, because I literally put on my leather pants and I left. I got there at 11:30 and left at 1.
AR: I love that he didn’t have sheets on the bed.
KN: what the actual fuck? I went home and in the morning I woke up and thought I feel a little bad. so I texted him: “heyyyy, sorry if I got weird at the end, last night was cool!”
AR: …[laughter]
KN: he wrote back seven hours later: “no worries, hope work was cool.” and because I was weird, he’s like I'm done. and it’s like, that was done before it was over.
TY: so okay, as receivers, we don’t feel entitled to ask for what we’re getting.
AR: see I don’t have that experience.
KN: and I’m very very happy for you -
AR: thank you.
KN: and I really hope that continues for you, I seriously do.
AR: I don’t know if it’s because I haven’t had a lot of experience but I don’t feel bad. the guy before I had sex, his dick had to basically be right up against my vagina for me to be like NOPE NOT YOU.
KN: did you say it? please tell me that you said “nope, not you.”
AR: I didn’t say it out loud but as soon as I felt it I was like NO. but I didn’t feel bad about that -
KN: and that’s good. I’m a very sensitive person generally and I hate the idea that people’s feelings are hurt, about anything. the rational part of me knew I would never see him again, the sex was terrible, and that’s it. but the sensitive female part of me was like “well maybe I’ll try it again and it’ll be better, lemme apologize just in case we wanna try that again.” and when I say “we” I mean if I decide I want to try that again. but I felt the need to say I’m sorry! and again, what even is that! I have one more thing I want to say on the theme of empowering female sexuality.
TY: let’s end on that note, that’s a positive note to end on.
KN: because that’s what it is, right? it’s a little bit out of our hands and that’s annoying and it’s a little bit our choice. basically [to Amelia] what you and I are doing is absolutely our choice -
AR: absolutely!
KN: fuck yeah.
Two Drinks In is a frank and often times silly conversation about often serious topics. you can always find an excerpt in our print issue with the full conversation here on the site.